Dopamine Isn't About Pleasure. Here's What It Really Does
Welcome back to Reconnection Moments, a space where we get real about intimacy disorders and healing from sexual compulsivity. Not through willpower or shame, but by gently rewiring the brain and body back into connection. I'm Dr. Michael Barta, creator of The Reconnection Model. In each episode, I'll be answering questions I hear most from clients and therapists, and I will also be sharing fresh insights from my ongoing work.
Host:Welcome back to the Reconnection Podcast. Today, we're going to be talking about beyond the buzzwords, what you should know about the treatment you're choosing. Dr. Barta, you told me a while back that people often ask about your academic background, your training and your expertise, and specifically terms like trauma informed, neurobiological and attachment based terms, those are all pretty big buzzwords these days. What should someone know when they're looking at a program that advertises that kind of treatment?
Dr. Barta:Well, for one thing, you know, they are hugely used buzzwords. Right? And, that's what people use to get people in the door. And oftentimes, there's a huge difference between those buzzwords and what the people in that place actually do or have the academic experience or training to do. Right?
Dr. Barta:So I think people really have the right to know what those words actually mean. They can describe a very legitimate approach to treatment, but the words themselves don't tell you what you're gonna receive. If a program says something like it's trauma informed, what does that mean? If it says it's attachment based, what does that mean? How does attachment influence treatment?
Dr. Barta:If they say, including myself, it's neurobiological, How much do the people actually know about neurobiology academically, clinically? Right? What training do they have in this particular science? And how is it actually being used? Because we're trusting someone with our mental health, Cory.
Dr. Barta:Our addiction, we're trusting them with our relationships. And sometimes one of the most vulnerable periods of our life. And I think you have every right to understand the treatment you're receiving and who's providing it.
Host:And I know most people ask these questions about your own work.
Dr. Barta:They do. And you know what? I welcome these because I like the consumer to be informed about what they're getting. I don't want them to think I'm doing some kind of magic thing and have them walk away. Right?
Dr. Barta:They need to understand where this work comes from, where it originated. Right, how I got here, all those types of things. And if I say neuroscience and neurobiology informed my work, well, then ask me about my academic background in those areas. Ask me about my graduate level coursework and training in those areas. Ask me about my postgraduate training, my clinical experience, how long I've studied this material, and how I how current I stay with research.
Dr. Barta:Right? So one of the big things about me is I constantly want to keep on the cutting edge of what's going on because things are happening so fast. Right? I want to be able to have the best, newest, legitimate neuroscience in my treatment. And I don't think someone should accept a claim of expertise simply because a clinician like myself uses the terminology.
Dr. Barta:Right? If I'm representing myself as having expertise in something, I should be able to explain what that experience is based on. For me, the principle is simple. Our claims should match our qualifications.
Host:So it begs the question, does someone need to be a neuroscientist to use neuroscience in treatment?
Dr. Barta:Absolutely not. Right? So no. And I I am not a neuroscientist. Right?
Dr. Barta:I study neurobiology. I I study neuroscience. I am not a neuroscientist. Right? But you can be an excellent addiction therapist without being a neuroscientist.
Dr. Barta:You can be an excellent clinician in trauma without having a degree in neurobiology. Education, specialization, clinical training, experience, and competence can come from a number of places, but there's a difference between saying neuroscience informs how I understand addiction and making a very specific claim about what happened in someone's brain or exactly how treatment is going to change a neurobiological process. The more specific is the scientific claim. The more important it is that the education and the training of me and whoever's doing this support it.
Host:And what about someone's actual experience treating the problem?
Dr. Barta:I think it's really important, right? If I'm seeking trauma treatment, want to know what training experience the clinician had in trauma. Is it a lot, or is it a couple courses? Right? And then they and then they go on from there and say they treat trauma.
Dr. Barta:Right? It's an ongoing process. It's a never ending learning. There's all kinds of new types of trauma treatment out there coming out every day. And yet some people only use one or two methods.
Dr. Barta:Right? And that's okay. But you need to be informed on what's out there. Right? If a program says it's attachment based, well, how do you understand attachment?
Dr. Barta:Did you actually study it, or did you read a book about it? Right? What are you going to help the client get from your wealth of knowledge? That's what I work for. Right?
Dr. Barta:And if I'm seeking treatment for sex addiction or compulsive sexual behavior, I want to know how much experience the clinician has treating this particular problem. I also think it's reasonable to ask about their lived experience with this problem. Right? Have they experienced this in their own lives, or is it something that they learned and now they're treating? Right?
Dr. Barta:And I'm not saying that's wrong. I'm just saying people with lived experience in the addiction itself seem to have a better grasp on how to treat the addiction in others. Has this personally experienced have you personally experienced the problem you're treating? That's a huge question. And you have every right to know that, whether or not they say that's none of your business.
Dr. Barta:Right? That's a question that I I mean, I don't ask it anymore when I'm looking for my own therapy when I go there sometimes because I already know. You know? I already know who I'm going to. So but it's very important.
Dr. Barta:You know? Have you lived this? Has this problem personally affected you? Are you in recovery yourself? And if so, what kind?
Dr. Barta:And, also, if you're in recovery, how does that inform the work you do? Right? That doesn't mean clinician has to pers— every clinician has to personally experience sex addiction, trauma, or any other condition to be an excellent therapist. And personal recovery certainly doesn't replace education, training, or clinical experience. But in my case, in my experience, and the men who tell me this about my approach, Having had a lived experience greatly influences how someone understands a problem.
Dr. Barta:And I think it's reasonable for people to ask us what professional and personal experience informs your work? What how does this make me more trustworthy in what I'm delivering to you?
Host:So you talk a lot about neuroscience. Is there an example of something people hear about the brain that gets oversimplified?
Dr. Barta:Dopamine's probably the easiest example. You probably heard of dopamine, called the brain's pleasure chemical. And that's easy to understand. It's not only incomplete, it's not correct. Okay?
Dr. Barta:Dopamine's not about pleasure. Dopamine is involved in motivation, anticipation, learning, reinforcement, and pursuit. And in addiction, there's an important distinction between wanting something and actually liking it. So I've had men tell me, "Michael, I didn't even know. I didn't even wanna do it."
Dr. Barta:Right? I didn't wanna act out. A partner might understandably think, of course you did. You did it. So how can you be sitting here now telling me you didn't want it?
Dr. Barta:But he may be describing something very real. He may not enjoy the behavior. He may not enjoy the behavior anymore. I can tell you from personal experience having an addiction, it quits working long before we quit. And it's just very painful to keep doing it.
Dr. Barta:He may hate what he's doing to his life and genuinely wanna stop while the learned drive towards anticipation and pursuit is still extremely powerful. And, basically, that's a more comp that's more complicated than saying he wanted another dopamine hit. Right? And that's what a lot of people say is, like, we're he's chasing dopamine. Yeah.
Dr. Barta:Maybe he is, but why? It's not about pleasure. Right? We gotta get this stuff straight for people. Scientific language can make something sound very authoritative, but we oversimplify it.
Dr. Barta:We oversimplify the science. And by doing so, we make the explanation less accurate.
Host:So how does a regular person know what's really established science and what's somebody's interpretation?
Dr. Barta:Well, I think that's my part you know, part of that is my my responsibility to, explain. There's established scientific evidence, there's emerging research, and there's clinical interpretation. These are not the same things. Right? So a clinician can take what they've learned from neuroscience attachment development, trauma, addiction research, and combine it with clinical experience to create a very useful way of understanding something.
Dr. Barta:And that's how clinical models often help us. But a clinical model doesn't become established neuroscience simply because the neuroscience helped inform it. If something is strongly supported by research and continues to be supported by the most recent research, right, and if the research contradicts something that was previously said, that needs to be told. Right? But something I need to tell you, right, if the research is still developing, I'm gonna tell my clients that.
Dr. Barta:Right? I'm gonna say this is what research is saying right now. Right? Not what it said ten years ago. Or if it was ten years ago, I'm gonna tell them, this is what the research said ten years ago.
Dr. Barta:If I'm giving my clinical interpretation, I should identify that it is my clinical interpretation. Right? I don't wanna just go, oh, I treat something through neurobiology. Right? Sometimes the scientific responsibility is you know, the the responsible answer for me is, I don't know that yet.
Dr. Barta:And I think all of us should be comfortable saying that. I just don't know. I usually follow it up with I'll try to find an answer for that. But I'm very comfortable saying I don't know. Right?
Dr. Barta:Yep.
Host:Well, how does all that apply to your Reconnection model?
Dr. Barta:Well, it applies a lot because the Reconnection model is a clinical framework I've developed from a number of areas over a long period of time. Right? It's informed by addiction research, attachment, developmental science, neuroscience, nervous system regulation, psychopsychology, psychophysiology, and many years of clinical experience working with men struggling with sexual addiction and compulsive sexual behaviors. But I don't claim that everything in the Reconnection model is established neuroscience. Some parts are grounded directly in neuroscience and existing research, while other parts represent my clinical interpretation and framework while I've that I've developed from applying these ideas and this research in the treatment setting.
Dr. Barta:So it's always growing. Right? It's not a fixed model that I that I say, okay. This works, and I'm gonna continue using it to work. Right?
Dr. Barta:It's always growing. So and I test it every time I run a new intensive. So it's getting new information every time. I think that it would be really amazing if treatment centers could really come about this because it's not just gonna help the client. It's gonna help the the the literature in our in our programs.
Dr. Barta:It's gonna help train new therapists that if we're testing what we're saying, you know, even empirically, in each session, it's gonna do nothing but help. And I think this is a really important distinction. I believe very strongly in the Reconnection model, but I don't need to make the science say more than it actually says in order to say that this model is clinically useful. To me, that's my professional transparency.
Host:So let's say I'm looking for treatment. What should I actually pay attention to?
Dr. Barta:I just keep it really simple. Understand what treatment you're actually going to receive. Look at the education, specialized training, and experience of the people who are who are going to be treating you. That's huge. Right?
Dr. Barta:If they claim expertise in a particular problem you're seeking help for, understand what that expertise is based on. Ask them their lived experience, their training. Basically, who trained them? Right? Where did you get this training?
Dr. Barta:Right? All kinds of things like that. And if a lived experience or personal recovery is part of their background, I also ask, you know, how has this influenced your work? Because I want to understand that well. If scientific claims are being made, it's reasonable to ask, what evidence supports you?
Dr. Barta:Is this new research? How long has this research been valid? Right? Is are you using things that you're currently reading up on or studying? Right?
Dr. Barta:Or are are you stuck in the past? Right? So that's a real problem for people when they're coming into treatment because people don't understand the nuance of what's actually out there and what's being said. If it's established science, right, emerging research, or is it your clinical interpretation? And then pay attention to how the questions are received.
Dr. Barta:This is huge. Right? Because these can make us clinicians feel defensive. Well, you're asking me or, you know, you're challenging me. But you know what?
Dr. Barta:I need to be challenged. Right? I want people to understand what they're getting. Right? A clinician should be able to comfortably explain what they do, how they learned it, and why they're doing it.
Dr. Barta:They should be able to acknowledge their limitations of what we know with no defense at all. Right? So you're not interrogating us, you guys. You're making an informed decision about your mental health, and that's huge. And I advocate for that.
Dr. Barta:I advocate for people to go back to their therapists if they're saying their therapists are doing something that they don't think is right and say, Look, be honest with them. Say, This is what I'm seeing. This is what I would like to do, and then have a conversation about it. It's not about telling the therapist they're doing something wrong because they're not. They may not know.
Dr. Barta:Right? They may not know what you're asking. They don't have your script. Advocate for yourself.
Host:So what's the main thing you want somebody listening to remember?
Dr. Barta:Well, I really want people to become informed consumers without becoming suspicious consumers. Right? Not everybody's out there trying to get us. Right? People generally want to help other people, but they may be doing so behind something that they're not quite sure of what they need to explain.
Dr. Barta:Alright? And this isn't about assuming therapists or treatment programs are doing anything wrong. Okay? I don't come from that position. I don't assume that.
Dr. Barta:Most clinicians I've known throughout my career really, really wanna help the client. It's simply about understanding what you're choosing before you trust someone with something this important. And I think you can boil it down to maybe a couple or a few questions. Right? What are you gonna do with me?
Dr. Barta:Why do you believe this is gonna help me? What qualifications do you have to provide this work for me? What experience do you have in treating this? Right? And they need to be more than just pat answers.
Dr. Barta:Oh, I've been doing this for five years. I've been doing this for ten years. What experience, what actual experiences can you name in treating this problem? What evidence is supporting the claims you're making when you're telling people this is what I or this is what we do? And I want people to hold me to that same standard.
Dr. Barta:Right? So if you're considering the Reconnection Intensive, you're more than welcome to ask me about my education, my graduate level education, my postgraduate level education, which means education after a PhD. Right? My clinical experience. The science behind what I teach.
Dr. Barta:How did I learn that science? What academic coursework did I do to understand this at just more than a surface level? And how did I develop the Reconnection Model? I really welcome these kind of questions. Right?
Dr. Barta:Scientific terminology alone doesn't establish credibility. And living lived experience doesn't always establish clinical competence. What matters is the whole picture. Right? Education, training, experience, evidence, transparency, and integrity.
Dr. Barta:These are the four things I'd want to know before I trust someone with my care.
Host:Well, Dr. Barta, thank you. And for those listening, thank you for joining us on the Reconnection Podcast. If you'd like to learn more information, check out drmichaelbarta.com, and we'll see you next time.
Dr. Barta:Thanks for joining me today. If you want to learn more about how this healing happens, visit drmichaelbarta.com. And if this episode spoke to you, share it with someone who might need to hear it. Until next time, keep reconnecting.